AYF 108 | IRA Money


Even the best people in the business need some help to get their processes right and make sure they are not losing. Merrill Chandler also has his own magic maker, someone who has helped him in more ways than one to do everything right and efficiently. In this episode, he brings over to the show Jack Kiley of MidAtlantic IRA to help you get maximum leverage in real estate and fundability™, making sure you dot your I’s and cross your T’s. In particular, they dive deep into your IRA and examine whether or not it is costing you money that you’re not even aware of. He talks about self-direction, your retirement plan, how it is a tax deferral vehicle, and why you should add it to your toolbelt. Join Merrill and Jack in today’s conversation to know more about leveraging your IRA’s the best way you can.

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Is Your IRA Costing You Money? With Jack Kiley

Maximum Leverage With Jack Kiley

I have got a treat. I’m bringing on board for this next interview my own high-powered corporate strategist CPA and who also manages my IRA. He plays several roles for me and my organization. I want him to be able to weigh in on the reason why I use him, why he is so important to my success. I want you to be able to have those little golden nuggets as well. Let’s get started.

My guest is Jack Kiley. He and I have been in the same circles, same events, speaking to real estate investors, business entrepreneurs for the last few years. I remember coming up and talking to you. I knew some of your team who are visiting and representing you around the country. One day, I walked up to Jack and I had this crazy question, “How do I do all of this stuff tax-free?” Every time we saw each other, I’d go up and we’d continue this conversation about using the different legal instruments that he is a genius at. I’m an empire builder, but sometimes I leave a mess behind me where I’m the bull in the China shop.

Whereas everything that you have shared with me, Jack, has been from a 10,000-foot view, not a 1,000-foot view. You’ve helped me structure all my businesses. Remember we talked about the QFE, the Qualified Fundable Entity, and then client companies, what are their relationships. Jack has been my magic maker and has put me in the flow of being able to do everything right, but keep doing everything fast so that I can pivot, etc. Jack, welcome to the show.

I appreciate that gracious introduction. It’s an interesting world you and I are both traveling with real estate investors. The group is eclectic. The thing I love about real estate more than anything else, I was having this conversation with somebody, I’ve seen probably thousands of deals. I’ve seen all kinds of structures and all kinds of combinations. It’s driven by what the parties involved are trying to get to. It’s a meeting of the minds. There’s a lot of interesting and sometimes a little wacky stuff out there.

The way I think of it is that real estate investors or deals are using an alphabet. There are three ways to spell there, there, their, they’re. It’s the same deal, but using that example, three ways to spell one word or one sound. You’ve had to have seen hundreds of ways in which people have done the exact same deal but create different results.

It’s that same way with businesses. There’s a middle ground so to speak. I’ve seen organizations that are overly complicated for no apparent reason. There’s a balancing act between setting things up the way that you need them set up to accomplish your goals without driving yourself nuts. Sometimes people think that’s hard and sometimes it is, but you can accomplish what you want to relatively easily. The hard part is you need to follow whatever it is that you’ve established because the minute that you don’t follow it, it invites trouble, scrutiny and a bunch of other issues.

There's a balancing act between setting things up the way that you need them set up to accomplish your goals without driving yourself nuts. Sometimes people think that's hard and sometimes it is, but you can accomplish what you want to… Share on X

That’s straight out of my intro. That’s what I’m talking about because I am the bull in the China shop. I am the guy who has great ideas. We pivoted in COVID and the results have been phenomenal. We’ve been able to help so many people protect their limits. The problem is I don’t always know how to dot the I’s, cross the T’s and make strategically important decisions in the big picture. This is why your counsel, your advice, everything that you have coached me on have been lifesavers. That’s why we have everything that we need for us to be able to share. Here’s an example. This was my conversation with Jack. I’m whipping out my poster board, trying to figure out the best way to solve it in a calm, cool, collected way, Jack. “What about this?” He sent me with homework to sleep on about better ways to arrange this. I cannot tell you the value of sharpening the blade with you compared to me out there hacking the bush. You are our CPA. You do help me with corporate planning, corporate strategy, but one of your biggest gifts to at least the real estate investment market is managing self-directed IRAs. I don’t know if that’s the right term. Tell us about that part of your world.

We don’t manage. What we do is we are third party administrators. We are dotters of I’s, crossers of T’s, making sure people stay in compliance. Where I got involved in those, I’m a CPA and I’ve been it seems like for 1,000 years, but it’s only been for a scant 30. What I learned early on, CPAs fall into two categories. They are people that help businesses and individuals accomplish their goals, get where they want, or they fill out forms, they do tax returns, they produce financial statements and they leave it at that. The challenge quite frankly, with most CPAs is that stereotypically we’re an introverted group. We don’t like to get out on a stage in public. We’re much more comfortable behind the desk with a piece of paper or a computer and doing our thing.

The less we have to talk to people, the better. The challenge is, especially in this world, all of those things over many years have been drastically commoditized like with everything else. Even a real estate transaction is effectively commoditized in a sense. The challenge becomes, at least in what I did or what I was doing, is how to add value to your clients and the people. Where I got involved in self-direction as the firm that I was working for had tons of developers and real estate people. This goes back into the 1980s.

Everything is radically different back then.

We have computers to begin with. We have fax paper and all the rest of that stuff. Back in caveman days, self-directed retirement plans have been around since the ‘70s. IRAs came into being in the mid-‘70s. Self-direction has been around. It’s been a very small market. When you think about retirement plans, it’s upwards, depending on the day that you’re talking about it, the value is somewhere around $30 trillion. That’s trillion dollars. That’s a huge amount of money in those types of instruments. Of which only probably I would bet, I haven’t seen the last numbers, but less than a trillion is probably in self-directed products, meaning the vast majority. I’m not sure what the number is, but it’s certainly more than 90% is in stocks and bonds, marketable securities.

What’s happened over time is that the brokerage firms, the banks and whatnot have grabbed onto retirement plans and used them as a conduit to bring money in to attract money to do whatever their core business is, be it buy and sell stocks or whatever it is. Real estate people, even back in the ‘80s, were familiar with self-direction. That question kept coming up. The partners at the firm that I was at were older than I was. They’d looked down the line and they’d say, “Young guy, go figure this out.” Back in those days, all of the companies that did self-direction were on the West Coast. In those days, it was difficult to do something cross coast. You’re on the West Coast, I’m on the East Coast. We can put this together in a matter of minutes.

AYF 108 | IRA Money

IRA Money: Generally, you can accomplish what you want relatively easily. The hard part is you need to follow whatever it is that you’ve established because the minute that you don’t, it invites trouble, scrutiny, and a bunch of other issues.


You guys say we’re too tightly wrapped on the East Coast. We get up too early. You guys get up too late. All of those things made transactions very difficult. Now, it’s not so difficult. One of the things I learned back then is that self-direction is a tool in your tool belt to accomplish your goals. In financial planning, one of the things financial planners always talk about, and I did this for a very brief period of time because it drove me nuts, is you should diversify your portfolio. You should have some of this, some of that, a partridge in a pear tree. You should have all of this stuff to diversify across a myriad of things. Meanwhile, your retirement plan should all be in stocks and bonds.

You’ve got your experimental things over here, but what you’ve got to base your life on is it should stay in stocks and bonds.

This is one of the things that separates, for instance, entrepreneurs and a fair number of real estate people from the masses. You have to have a certain level of clear, critical thinking and logic. If they’re telling you that you need to diversify your portfolio across various sectors and this and that and the other thing, but arguably, people’s second-biggest asset that they hold is their retirement plan. Their first biggest is their residence. The second biggest, generally speaking, is their retirement plan. You’re going to take your second biggest asset and put that all in one thing. Intuitively, that never made sense to me. That’s when I started to dig into self-direction.

What I tell people is a self-directed IRA is a very variable tax-deferred or tax-free vehicle. What I mean by that is you are able to take your knowledge. You can leverage your knowledge. You can take what you do. If it’s real estate, you can buy real estate. If you’re a lender, you can lend. I’m on the outside of Washington DC, and don’t hold that against me, but there are a lot of biotech firms here. A lot of engineers invest in small biotech companies. One of the dirty little secrets, maybe that’s not a great way to put it, but a lot of startup banks, nouveau banks startup with about 20%, 30%, 40% of retirement plan money because they know it’s a great source of capital. You’re able to take your knowledge and invest in things.

Maybe you have a more intimate knowledge. If you’re a real estate guy, it’s real estate. If you’re an engineer, it’s engineer. One of my best stories is that very early on, when I started MidAtlantic, a client called me, I’m sitting there and I’m trying to visualize this alpaca. I knew it was an animal. I was flipping through the dictionary because back in those days, I don’t have a dictionary, I’m sad to say. I like books. I’m old school that way. Finally, I find it. Thank God there was a picture of it. I’m going, “It’s a llama.” We’re having this big conversation about it. At the end I asked her, “You got my curiosity. Why alpacas?” She said to me, “I’m a large animal vet.” She goes into this whole thing about wool yield and bloodline. All of a sudden, she’s way up here. For me, that would be a terrible investment because I’m allergic to the cat. The cat and I don’t even like each other. She’s zig, I’m zag. If I had alpacas, they’d probably die that first season. For her, it’s a perfect investment.

It’s because she’s a subject matter expert where she’s going to invest her money.

Self-direction is a tool in your tool belt to accomplish your goals #GetFundable Share on X

That is the key. One of the things that people always tell you is that businesspeople, financial planners, everybody, if you don’t understand something, you shouldn’t invest in it. For her, again, perfect investment. She understands it. She understands the risks involved, whatever those may be. For me, lousy, I’m not even sure what you would even feel. On a microcosm, that is a great example of where self-direction allows you to leverage your knowledge, use your capital, invest in things maybe at a little more micro level than giving it over to somebody else.

Let me summarize what I’m hearing you say. First of all, the heritage of investing these IRAs that have been around since the ‘70s, the heritage of investing is everybody goes to mutual funds and stocks and stuff. Diversification is only what types of stocks people are investing in. It’s always been there. In the self-directed model, you get to find out what your jam is and invest in your subject matter expertise. You’re able to take funds. We’ll get into not personally being able to run them, but you can vet an opportunity because you’re the subject matter expert, like your alpaca example. You can go and look at the health of the alpaca farm. You can look and evaluate how safe your investment is and then invest those funds for a tax-deferred to tax-free return on that thing. Am I getting this fairly concise?

If you dropped back a step and let’s take a 30,000-foot view of this is Jack’s vision of wealth building, which take it for what it’s worth. People, they sit down and they make a plan. Generally, the plan involves two things. There are a lot of personal things that you plan for and you want to do. For most people, there’s also a business path. There’s a career path. It may be through a company. It may be owning a company. It may be people take different paths. For most people that I deal with, they’ve decided to take control of their business, start their own business, work in partnership with other people, whatever it is. Generally speaking, they want to be the captain. They want to be in control of their own destiny. You make the plan, then you set goals to accomplish the plan. Part of the plan is to acquire things and stuff to further the plan. I borrowed those things and stuff from a gentleman named Keith Cunningham, and you guys can go look him up. He is a great entrepreneur.

I quote him in my boot camp. I use his example of the Mann Gulch dropping the old and embracing the new. I love Keith Cunningham. You’ll hear me in my boot camp all the time. I refer to his paradigm evaluation process. I put everybody through it in my boot camp so I’m with you.

I hope he sees this. I hope he decides to contribute to me before shamelessly borrowing. As you acquire these things and stuff, then the question becomes how do you utilize those things to further your goals and how do you shelter your things and stuff? That’s where self-direction is one of those tools where you can do these. If we’re talking about real estate, for instance, you can acquire real estate or you can do whatever your real estate thing is, either a tax-deferred or a tax-sheltered environment. You’re basically leveraging. If you get a 10% ROI and after tax, now that’s a 7% ROI. In a self-directed plan, that’s still a 10% ROI. What I always say to people is, “In a perfect world, you could do everything in a tax-deferred environment,” which you can’t. If you could, you would move from a position of being paid on, of being taxed on consumption. In other words, what you spend, what you pull out as opposed to being taxed on production. Right now, our tax system is one based on production. If I sell a piece of property and I make $100,000 and I do that personally, I pay tax on $100,000 whether I spend the whole thing, reinvesting it, regardless of what I do.

The $100,000 is the taxable event.

AYF 108 | IRA Money

IRA Money: Self-direction is really a tool in your tool belt, so to speak, to accomplish your goals.


If I do that in a self-directed plan and I don’t pull out anything, I don’t pay any tax. If I pull out $10,000, I pay tax on $10,000. Usually the blocking point or the thing that enters people’s minds is they say, “I don’t get capital gains treatment.” My response to that is, “If I bought Google stock in my IRA and I sold it ten years later and made $500,000 on it, I don’t get capital gains treatment for that either. What’s the difference?” In your overall financial planning, there are these lanes. There’s taxable, tax-deferred and tax-free and traditional IRAs, 401(k)s. Those sorts of things fall into that tax-deferred. Roth falls into tax-free. Virtually everything you do is taxable. How do you move effectively from bucket to bucket, effectively retaining your wealth and being able to buy things and stuff or invest in things and stuff in these other environments?

For my tribe, it would be the worst possible use of the relationship to say that Jack is my accountant. He’s my strategist. You are my strategist. It’s like, “What’s your end game? What are the pieces of the puzzle that we have to work with?” That’s why I showed you what are all the pieces of the puzzle. What’s your end game? The starting point, where do we want to end up? Where are we? What do we got in play in being able to craft this? Just so that you know how much I believe in what you are doing is that in every boot camp that I do, there is a section where we evaluate. If push comes to shove and you’ve got to contract your life, what are the first things to go?

The first thing I tell everybody is your short-term savings, whatever that is for you, $10,000, $20,000, to protect your credit profile at all costs. It starts getting fuzzy. It’s wonderful to watch people say, “You’ve got to protect your credit.” In 2008, to protect people’s credit, they burned through hundreds of thousands of retirements trying to stay afloat and trying to continue to be a good borrower. What we end up with at the end of this exercise is that the most precious thing that you’ve got is your IRA, your long-term savings. The things that took you decades to build and are your tool through self-directed for investing in properties or in your wealth vehicles, whatever those are. The second most important is your financial reputation. I tell people to let go of properties before they let go of their credit, but definitely before.

You can always pick up another property. It takes you seven years to rebuild a good borrower profile, but it will take you decades to rebuild your IRA or your wealth. That’s the wealth engine that’s properly used. You don’t even need good credit to invest in deals to make a return on your money. I’m all in, Jack. I teach my entire tribe to value their long-term IRA savings even before their fundability™ because how long is it going to take to get a new one is my question. A new house is 90 days. A new credit profile is seven years. A new IRA with $500,000 to $1.5 million in it, three decades. That’s how we value this.

People come to me, people come to you, people come to other in various fields. What they’re searching for is a template, an organization to do whatever it is that they need to do. I can’t tell you how many people I start with and it flames out because you have to do some work in this. It’s not my goals. I’ve got my own goals. I’ve got my own aspirations. I’ve got my own kids. I don’t need more. This is the hard part a lot of times, what is it that you’re trying to accomplish? What is it that you want to do? What is it that you’re trying to provide? I know this sounds cliché, but you’ve got to write it down. When the stuff hits the fan like it did in 2008 or when the stock market in the beginning of 2020 dumped a third, anybody who tells you that wild thoughts didn’t run through their head is lying to you. As my mother used to say, “They’re full of balloon juice.” They’re full of hot air because they did. In those moments, that’s when you need to pull out that piece of paper and say, “Here’s what we were trying to accomplish. This is what I’m trying to accomplish. What do we have to do?

What’s our pivot point now?

Go against conventional wisdom because that is where opportunities are. Share on X

How do we do that? The beauty with people who are entrepreneurial or real estate or people that work for themselves, and I alluded to this a little, you have to be a critical thinker and you have to be willing to run against the herd. I’ll tell you, self-direction, for instance, is a bit running against the herd. What you talk about in your book is running against the herd. I wouldn’t say I’m a voracious reader, but I read a lot. I probably spend four hours a day with my nose in a book. I am pretty solid on a lot of subjects. Part of anybody is knowing what you don’t know and knowing where to go and being open to critically think about new ideas. I’ll give you a couple of examples. Irrespective of what you think of Amazon, Bezos had a vision. I remember back in the early ‘80s thinking wasting money hand over fist.” It’s like year in, year out and it goes, and here we are.

He had a vision. Henry Ford back in the day, the Wright brothers, all of those things. I remember if somebody told me back when I started working that I was going to talk incessantly on this and that I would be able to see who it is that I’m talking to, Steve Jobs. You’ve got to be able to think critically and go against conventional wisdom because that’s where opportunities are. That’s where wealth is made. I’m not saying that you go whole hog into anything. You’ve got to assess risk and as my daughter would say, you have to stay in your lane. Don’t do things that you don’t know about. In a broad brush, you need to be grounded in what your wealth-building plan is and where these things like self-direction fit. Your credit, where it fits. How are people evaluating that? You and I were talking about this. I like to think that I got good credit. My credit score is 780 and I’m thinking, “This is good.” I come to find that the credit cards that I have are Tier 2, Tier 3. All of a sudden, you have to eat a little bit of humble pie and sit there and go, “There’s a better way.”

“There’s more to it than I know.” Yet, only the people who are pushing the envelope because the time we’ve spent together in corporate planning and corporate planning regarding taxes and shared wealth with my partner, all the things, you ask questions that I have never even thought to ask. It’s even further outside of the you don’t know what you don’t know. It’s even beyond that. I don’t even know what to ask to find out what I don’t know. The whole point is both of our industries, we’re thought leaders in how we keep pushing something that we love. Since you were a young man, when they said, “Go figure this stuff out,” you’re like, “This is awesome.” Now you become a leader, even a thought leader in your field to be able to push the envelope to see how many of those thousands of transactions. You keep making that comfort zone bigger and bigger and bigger.

Until somebody like me walks in and you’re like, “Stop right there.” You already have all the answers that it would take me gobs of research and hours to find out. You’ve already done it 17 or 48 times. It’s the expertise. That is the benefit and the blessing to what I’m creating, because I’m an ambitious guy, yet I also don’t want to have psychic drag about am I doing it right. I want to do what I do well but find somebody who’s as passionate about having my back as I am about having their front. That’s why this is so thrilling for my people to get to know you and to be able to sit with you and find out. I don’t interview a lot of people on my show. The only people I do either thought leaders in their fields that directly impact my tribe. You gave us an idea of the difference between self-directed and regular IRAs, but what are some of the cool things that you find people doing with their self-directed IRAs? What do they need to do to convert their regular IRA to a self-directed so that then they can do these cool things? The things that would be within their subject matter expertise.

First of all, any retirement plan, be it a traditional Roth, any of those types of plans can be self-directed. The key is to find a company like ours like MidAtlantic. In fact, you should always call MidAtlantic first.

Check it out. Talk to Jack. I talk to him. How many times did we talk before I became a client? I’ve never looked back.

AYF 108 | IRA Money

IRA Money: A self-directed IRA is a very variable tax-deferred or tax-free vehicle.


First of all, I love talking about it because you find a provider. It’s like anything else in the world. It’s got to be a fit for what you do. Different firms do different things and have different niches and those sorts of things. You want to ferret that out. The spectrum of things that you can’t invest in is very small. It’s all of two items in the IRA world, life insurance and collectibles. Anything else is fair game. There’s another set of rules, which gets a little in the weeds. I don’t want to get too deep into it, but it’s who the plan can transact business with. There’s a group of people and entities referred to as disqualified persons. Virtually anything that you want to do with structure. You have to be able to structure correctly.

This means forethought, which sometimes those people who are shoot, ready, aim is problematic. You can accomplish or invest in what it is that you want to invest in. The biggest thing is that you want to invest in things that you know about. If you are a real estate guy, real estate makes sense. If you’re an oil and gas guy, oil and gas make sense. If you’re an engineer, small company technology or whatever it is makes sense. That is the beauty of self-direction. You’re able to invest in things that you know about, you understand, and you have an intimate knowledge of. I’m not saying there’s not a place for stocks and bonds. There is a place, but this is what I say at seminars that I attend.

I will poll the audience, “Anybody here worked for a Fortune 500 company?” It’s always some hands that go. “Is anybody pretty high up the food chain?” A couple of hands go up. My question is, “What do you know about what goes on there?” Crickets, not a whole lot. When the market dumps, it’s like high tide, low tide, all ships go down. It doesn’t matter if you’re a good company or a bad company. The beauty of certain investments, real estate is one, lending is another. It is the secret, at least in my opinion. Part of the secret or the thing to think about is your cashflows. People get hung up on profit and loss statements and balance sheets and all that. They are important. If you don’t have cash, you can only spend cash. You can’t spend profits. Maybe you can, but you’ve got to have cash.

When you’re thinking about these different investments, you need to think of them in terms of cashflows, instead of in terms of is it profitable. It’s cash that drives the engine. I get back to financial planners and this is starting to change a little bit. The rule of thumb used to be you can spend 4% of the portfolio. Right now, if you’re in fixed income, for instance, you’re depleting the corpus of your portfolio. The dividends, that’s what I’m talking about here. The average dividend or interest rate on all marketable securities is something a little around 4%. If that’s the case, you’re in stasis. You’re not growing. You’re staying put.

That’s the beauty of self-direction. It allows you to do those things. When you talk about some of the cool things, it is you’re able to do whatever it is that you do. You can do that in a tax-deferred environment or a tax-free if it’s Roth. There are mechanisms to jump from what I say bucket to bucket. You can get money. You move money from your taxable bucket to a tax-deferred or tax-free bucket to be contributions. If you’re a small business, you’re solo. You’ve got no employees. You put into place a plan, either a SEP, a SIMPLE or a 401(k). If you’re into flexibility, the solo 401(k) is your best option. Plow away the most money.

If there’s a borrowing provision, if you need to borrow, there are a lot of advantages to it. What you’re doing is moving money from your taxable pocket. If you make a contribution, you have $100,000 in net income, you could contribute about $40,000 if you’re unlucky enough to be under 50. You get a little higher if you’re over 50. What you do is you can move $39,500 from your left pocket to your right pocket, from your taxable pocket to your tax-deferred pocket. You can do the same thing. When I talk to people in my tax practice and we’re talking about, “This is your tax liability. If you put money in your retirement plan, you can lower it by $10,000.” Most of them say, “If I do that, I can’t do what I want to do because it’s in stocks and bonds.” I’m like, “There is another way. There’s another path.” That is a way to move from bucket to bucket and still do the things that you want to do. A good advisor or somebody that is going to help you do these things, they may not know exactly how to do it. They should know how to put you in touch with somebody who does know. They should have enough confidence in their own abilities.

Don't do things that you don't know about. Be the subject matter expert. Share on X

This is the other thing that I see. They think of their clients or their tribes as their own little fiefdom. They’re afraid that if they share to somebody else, that somebody else is going to whisk the person away and they’re going to lose a client. They’re going to lose something. The reality is if your clients or the people, your circle of influence, if those people respect you, they will also respect the fact that you have the guts to say, “I don’t know everything about that, but I will find you somebody that does.” I truly believe people respect that. My coworkers are probably not going to be very happy with me. They sit there and they say, “You spend all this time on the phone. Bill something, damn it. Bring something on the door.” My response to that is, “If you share, you put little things out there, people will remember you and it will come back in multitudes.”

I’m a perfect testimony to that because while it was convenient that our booths were next to each other and so many times we’d talk, but you are generous with an in-depth question. It’s true that I couldn’t implement any of those answers because I haven’t got the wherewithal or the knowledge to do it, but I could have taken that to somebody else. You kept investing in me, Jack. I got to explore not just the depth but the breadth of your knowledge. It was corporate planning and CPA save as much on taxes and tax planning, and then how to move from left pocket to right pocket and start shifting and still make it investible in my business or keep it active in play. It’s because you have that very philosophy is why I am your client. You kept investing in me, so the only place that was natural for me to go when it was time for me to pull the trigger and get serious about my planning was you.

I try to do the same thing, but you were a genius at it. I try and give as much free information as I can, keep nurturing people towards doing the best they can, but you are a genius at this, Jack. I’m your client. My tribe, I’m his client because he has taken such good care of me without a dime trading hands. Now I’m going to spend whatever it takes to align myself perfectly with what I need to do. We both win. Jack, you are my guy at all these levels, strategy, tactics, long-term planning, and Merrill Chandler’s personal and financial planning for my children and loved ones. It’s been a massive win. What would be a final message that you would say to my tribe? What do you want for them and how you can support them?

The first thing I would say to you is you need to be introspective. You need to think about what is important to you. Where are you trying to get to? What is your goal? You might not have a path to that and recognize that goals change, circumstances change, timeframes change. Don’t be overly rigid, but you need to set that in place and you need to spend time on it. Our world now moves that fast, but our brains don’t move that fast. I’ll give you an example of that. People talk about multitasking. You can’t multitask. You do one thing and you might leave it for a split second and then come back and we call that multitasking, which you can’t. You’ve got to slow down, think about what you’re doing.

Get involved with people that can help you and that you can help. It is a two-way street. You’ve got to build your own team. Everybody has a team. Everybody is part of a larger team. You have to make those connections. It is hard now to live in a world where it’s like me, me, me. If you share, other people will share. I get a lot of my things and ideas and whatnot from businesses and from vocations that are completely unconnected to tax or to this or to that, all of the things that I do. Be open, be a critical thinker and be introspective.

Tell my people how to get ahold of you. I know you do a regular web class where you give them the introduction to different types of things that you offer. I want everybody to know. I have over 25,000 subscribers. I want every one of them to know your genius and how to start exploring working with you.

AYF 108 | IRA Money

IRA Money: If you’re really into flexibility, the 401k is your best option.


If you’re old school, pick up the phone and you can always call (240) 575-3880. There’s a lot of information on that. Same as you, I interview people from time to time that are interesting and that are involved in things that our clients are involved in. I do a lot of tax seminars. In November, I always do a year-end, an annual update, which will be interesting I’m sure because nobody knows which way the wind is going to blow here.

Is it before or after the election?

That would be after.

When is that date?

We don’t have it firmed up, but I would expect it to probably be the week after Thanksgiving, in that area. It’s a good primer two things that you want to get buttoned up before year-end. I’m always available for consultations.

I am a witness to that. Can I get a hallelujah? That’s true.

You set an appointment and drive Carol nuts in my office. She’s the keeper of the keys.

Your whole team has been a delight to work with. My executive assistant got with your assistant all the time about lots of stuff regarding our mutual interests.

All of our companies, we want an engaging conversation with our clients because if I know what’s going on and I said in self-direction, “You can do almost everything you want with a little forethought and a little structure.” In the IRA space, we are not advice-givers. When it comes to how do you want something structured, we can give you some guidance as to those sorts of things. In my tax practice, what I say to people is if we can spend ten minutes on something now, then it’s not an issue later. I’ll tell you, the thing I hate in my tax practice more than anything else is to have to call a client and say, “If you would have done B instead of A, you would have saved yourself $50,000.” Nobody wants to hear that. The reality is you want to make sure that you do things the most tax-efficient way that you can or the most efficient way you can. You need to engage whoever your advisors are. If they’re not willing to engage you, then you’re with the wrong people. Get with new people.

Jack, I always pull down nuggets and I’m your client. I can’t wait for this tax planning at the end of November. My people, take it to heart. The biggest thing I took home here is that switching money from your left pocket to your right pocket keeps it in your pockets to do things with and invest in, grow and expand. You’re not putting it in the right instrument can continue to allow you to leverage. Your fundability™ is everything. By the way, we haven’t even gotten Jack into how to use your IRA self-directed as part of your QFE, your Qualified Fundable Entity. How do you use monies in order to develop business banking relationships, etc.? We’ll have you back again. It’s been my pleasure, Jack, to have you here. Everybody, thank you for joining us. Reach out to Jack, and make sure that you at least ask the questions so that he can help you ask better and more inquisitive questions about your situation to come to great solutions.

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About Jack Kiley

AYF 108 | IRA MoneyJohn “Jack” Kiley is a Certified Public Accountant, licensed in the State of Maryland. Jack has also earned the designation of CISP / Certified IRA Services Professional (Issued by the Institute of Certified Bankers). Jack is an entrepreneur, financial planner, real estate investor and a partner in MidAtlantic IRA, LLC. He is also principal in John Kiley CPA, LLC, a public accounting firm specializing in tax and small business accounting.

Jack brings over 30 years of experience in public accounting to the table. He has extensive knowledge in developing tax, retirement and financial planning strategies for high net worth individuals and closely held businesses. He spends his days educating potential clients about the ins & outs of self-direction along wth overseeing the “Trust” side of the business.

He is also the “technical” expert with regard to self-directing your IRA. Jack feels strongly about his clients’ having the ability to “self-direct” their retirement. Jack’s reputation for “speaking in plain English” regarding complex concepts gets him invited regularly to speak on these topics to groups across the country – and especially on the topic of self-direction.

His knowledge makes him the expert to turn to, particularly when a complex scenario is needed for the purchase of real estate, mortgages, leases and other cash flows that the IRS allows in an individual retirement plan. You can reach him by phone 240/575.3880 ext. 201 or via email, jack.kiley@midatlanticira.com.

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